Introducing the new Clubsport Pedals V3 - UPDATE

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Comments

  • Is any 1 using Drver 226 and Fw 116 Probem Free??? All the Peaks Reading Right Without Having to Restart the wheel multiple Times???
    I am, but with V1 pedals

  • edited September 2015
    Natalie What Driver is FW 116 From??? Thats 219 right. Im trying to figure out if its just me with bad luck with 226 Wheel/Pedal FW or is 226 Wheel/Pedal FW Really Borked.... It didnt matter what pedal FW i used 226 wheel FW always acts up.... Have you Tried the Wheel FW from 226??? If so what were your Results??? Fw Feels Great on the Wheel just the Random Loss of Pedal Calibtation Drives me Insane!!! Usually Happens when m on a Good Lap too!!! Thats the worst. Also Im Ready I have PCars for XB1 and FM6 when are we all setting up a Race??? I Havent opened XB1 PCars yet... If No One is racing it im Taking it beck... I Havent Gotten into FM6 yet it seems to be Lacking soo Muck Road Feel... I Dunno but if thats where the Racing is Gonna be i will Stick with them.
  • I have tested EVERY driver, included firmware for V2 base AND V3 Pedals !!!
    Seems like the only V3 pedal firmware that NOT causes any weird peaks or losses is the Factory default firmware 1.7.
    Every other fw combo cuases trouble !!
    I've had the V2 base fw 110 out of driver V219 combined with V3 firmware 1.8 and 1.12 brake load cell to 0, auto calibration and sensitivity slider to 8 (second one from bottom)

    I've had the V2 base fw 116 out of driver V222 AND V223 with V3 firmware 1.8 and 1.12 brake load cell to 0, auto calibration and sensitivity slider to 8 (second one from bottom)

    I've had the V2 base fw 116 out of driver V226 with V3 firmware 1.8 and 1.12 brake load cell to 0, auto calibration and sensitivity slider to 8 (second one from bottom)

    Each and every combo is useless....BUT since I used the dry lube I only have issues with LOSS of Throttle input. Sometimes drops to half, sometimes only 4% loss....and YES very random !!

  • I have tested EVERY driver, included firmware for V2 base AND V3 Pedals !!!
    Seems like the only V3 pedal firmware that NOT causes any weird peaks or losses is the Factory default firmware 1.7.
    Every other fw combo cuases trouble !!
    I've had the V2 base fw 110 out of driver V219 combined with V3 firmware 1.8 and 1.12 brake load cell to 0, auto calibration and sensitivity slider to 8 (second one from bottom)

    I've had the V2 base fw 116 out of driver V222 AND V223 with V3 firmware 1.8 and 1.12 brake load cell to 0, auto calibration and sensitivity slider to 8 (second one from bottom)

    I've had the V2 base fw 116 out of driver V226 with V3 firmware 1.8 and 1.12 brake load cell to 0, auto calibration and sensitivity slider to 8 (second one from bottom)

    Each and every combo is useless....BUT since I used the dry lube I only have issues with LOSS of Throttle input. Sometimes drops to half, sometimes only 4% loss....and YES very random !!

    Exactly what I've been getting Too!!!...But thats ONLY when I Flash the FW 116 From Driver 226!!!  I've been using the Wheel FW from 222 and it gives me No Problem with Pedal Calibration... I went to 219 FW 94 because it has the car in 1st gear with FM6 when the Race Launches... Im Keeping watch because my wheel was riding Off Center a tad bit to the right always with FW 94...


  • edited September 2015
    I've been able to reproduce ONE of the loosing throttle issues!!! Everybody, try with FM6. When everything is switched off. First turn on the V2 base, then XOne (I use total power off option) and tv. Now start up FM6 and go to a career race of choice. Just start and check your throttle input beam...it's at about 65% at mine if I pull up telemetry! !!

    I even have to do a quit game via manage game, restart the wheel AND FM6 to have everything working again. Cause when I just restart wheel or game my SQ shifter doesn't respond anymore...only the paddles!
  • Don SpinelliDon Spinelli Member
    edited September 2015
    My Problem is when i Load Driver 226 and Flash FW 116 to wheel the Pedals Lose calibration and only Read Half way
    Go to Fana control panel.  Check manual mode, then uncheck it, then press each pedal once or twice and it should be calibrated to 100%.  I've had your halfway (or thereabouts) issue a couple times.  Just do that and you should be good until the next time you pull your pedals' USB cable out of your PC, or possibly upon PC reboot, I'm not sure but once I do that, I have no problems afterwards.
  • I saw that box that says please wait... Is there a Time that we are supposed to wait for Auto Calibration to lock in??? or is it instant??? i wonder???

    I Off 226 and back on 219 that Random Pedal Reading issue Frustates me!!!!
    With all the Post about it in this thead I dont Know why there has been No Response to the Matter!!! Other than Remco Van Dijk saying He Has Not Had that issue.... I dunno whats going on but sooo Many people cant be Wrong there is a problem with 226 that Needs to be Fixed.
  • I have the Pedals connected at the whee because i do PS4 and XB1 also.
  • I have the Pedals connected at the whee because i do PS4 and XB1 also.
    I have been having the gas pedal problem (Dropping to 25-50%) with the latest driver update. I was at a dead end. After contacting support I ended up shipping back the pedals to  La Mirada, California. They received them on 09/14/2015. Waiting for their return.
  • There was Probabley Nothing wrong with the Pedals... Its the FW226 thats Screwed up...It wont Calibrate the Pedals Correctly or it Loses the Pedal Calibration after a while of playing and the Issue Happens... its been Reported Sooo Many Times in this Thread alone but the only Respnse From Remco Van Dijk thats Supposed to be a Beta Tester is " I have Not Had that Issue" Really??? I wonder what testing is Really being done :-? .... Maybe Testing to see how it feels to get FREE Product...other than that idunno :-/ LOL JMT.... For Now im using FW 219 Very Stable and No Pedal issues.

  • Remco has only got a pc...and the issues only seem to occur on consoles. From what I can make out of the people that post the issues !!!
  • Remco has only got a pc...and the issues only seem to occur on consoles. From what I can make out of the people that post the issues !!!
    Ok if thats the Case Fine...so then if He Does Not Use a PS4 or XB1 then He Should ONLY QUOTE Facts on the Platform He Uses/Knows about... Very Simple... you Cant Beta Test on plaforms you dont Have... There should be a Beta tester for each Specific Platform... JMO

  • My Problem is when i Load Driver 226 and Flash FW 116 to wheel the Pedals Lose calibration and only Read Half way
    Go to Fana control panel.  Check manual mode, then uncheck it, then press each pedal once or twice and it should be calibrated to 100%.  I've had your halfway (or thereabouts) issue a couple times.  Just do that and you should be good until the next time you pull your pedals' USB cable out of your PC, or possibly upon PC reboot, I'm not sure but once I do that, I have no problems afterwards.
    I can confirm this, I literally just had the 50% issue and doing it like that resolved it. I'll report to the devs.
  • Grimey...I might have found the solution to our throttle loss issue. Still testing myself but I've got some good hopes up for it!!!
    If you look at the right side of the pedals, there are 3 hex screws holding the sensor case. Turn them al out, BUT BE CAREFULL not to lose the plastic washers that are used for distancing the sensor from the frame!!!!
    Noe clean that metal round sensor plate, on/in the frame, with a clean DRY cloth. Put it back together. Install fw 116 again. Re autocalibrate the pedals. I do that by clicking the enable manual calibration on and OFF again, push all pedals once more. And then load up PCars or FM 6 again and let me know tour findings.
    I think some in factory grease troubled the sensitivity of the gas pedal!!!
  • edited September 2015
    My Problem is when i Load Driver 226 and Flash FW 116 to wheel the Pedals Lose calibration and only Read Half way
    Go to Fana control panel.  Check manual mode, then uncheck it, then press each pedal once or twice and it should be calibrated to 100%.  I've had your halfway (or thereabouts) issue a couple times.  Just do that and you should be good until the next time you pull your pedals' USB cable out of your PC, or possibly upon PC reboot, I'm not sure but once I do that, I have no problems afterwards.
    I can confirm this, I literally just had the 50% issue and doing it like that resolved it. I'll report to the devs.
    Remco Van Dijk may i ask what platform or platforms  do you Personally own and use and How do you have your pedals connected???This would be relevant information because then i and maybe others would not look to you for input on Consoles EX: PS4/XB1. 

    Looking at the thread this issue is most common with PS4 and Xbox1 users... it has been spoken about many many times by Myself and many Different people...many of the people reporting it were not even the Regular people that post all the time...I am very happy that you finally see the issue for yourself but i am still confused and Confounded as to why this issue has not been reported or looked into given the amount of people that have posted they are having the issue with the pedals not reading correctly... it is very obvious that its not just 1 person having a random issue.

    All Platforms may vary and have different issues using the same FW and i
    would Not expect you to have knowledge of platforms you don't use this is why i ask what Platform do you use.

    Edit: I'm not trying to be difficult I'm just trying to understand How and who to post Driver or FW Related issues to
    :-??
  • @ALL, I can positively confirm that all throttle pedal issues are hardware problems!!!
    Just do as I did posted above Grimeys post. I've been testing/reproducing my own issues list and I haven't had any issues anymore! !!
  • edited September 2015
    Grimey...I might have found the solution to our throttle loss issue. Still testing myself but I've got some good hopes up for it!!!
    If you look at the right side of the pedals, there are 3 hex screws holding the sensor case. Turn them al out, BUT BE CAREFULL not to lose the plastic washers that are used for distancing the sensor from the frame!!!!
    Noe clean that metal round sensor plate, on/in the frame, with a clean DRY cloth. Put it back together. Install fw 116 again. Re autocalibrate the pedals. I do that by clicking the enable manual calibration on and OFF again, push all pedals once more. And then load up PCars or FM 6 again and let me know tour findings.
    I think some in factory grease troubled the sensitivity of the gas pedal!!!
    Maybe i will try that... I'm pretty Good at them Hall Sensors my V1 pedals drove me Crazy when the sensors were going out... LOL... I changed the PCB and everything... even ordered a extra set of Hall Sensors and load Cell for them The V1 pedals are sitting Good as New i even changed the Brass Bushings i never used from the CSP tuning Kit... LOL

    I don't think that's the Problem though... I'm on the wheel FW from 219 and the pedals Read Fine Always Now... even on Driver 222 Wheel and Pedal FW the Pedals Read Fine... Had the Random Brake Spike Issue but soon as i Straightened the Pedal Base, Cleaned out the Technical Vaseline and Lubed the pedals with the Teflon Lube No More Random Brake pedal Spike issues.... and most Seem to have the Random 50% pedal issue when they update to Driver 226 Wheel and Pedal FW.

    Keep me posted... if you don't have issues by Friday i will try that.

    Probably on with the Pedals plugged into PC the issue doesn't exist or takes longer to Reveal its self because the Pedals are calibrated by the PC and not the Wheel base.
  • My Problem is when i Load Driver 226 and Flash FW 116 to wheel the Pedals Lose calibration and only Read Half way
    Go to Fana control panel.  Check manual mode, then uncheck it, then press each pedal once or twice and it should be calibrated to 100%.  I've had your halfway (or thereabouts) issue a couple times.  Just do that and you should be good until the next time you pull your pedals' USB cable out of your PC, or possibly upon PC reboot, I'm not sure but once I do that, I have no problems afterwards.
    I can confirm this, I literally just had the 50% issue and doing it like that resolved it. I'll report to the devs.
    Remco Van Dijk may i ask what platform or platforms  do you Personally own and use and How do you have your pedals connected???This would be relevant information because then i and maybe others would not look to you for input on Consoles EX: PS4/XB1. 

    Looking at the thread this issue is most common with PS4 and Xbox1 users... it has been spoken about many many times by Myself and many Different people...many of the people reporting it were not even the Regular people that post all the time...I am very happy that you finally see the issue for yourself but i am still confused and Confounded as to why this issue has not been reported or looked into given the amount of people that have posted they are having the issue with the pedals not reading correctly... it is very obvious that its not just 1 person having a random issue.

    All Platforms may vary and have different issues using the same FW and i
    would Not expect you to have knowledge of platforms you don't use this is why i ask what Platform do you use.

    Edit: I'm not trying to be difficult I'm just trying to understand How and who to post Driver or FW Related issues to
    :-??

    Grimey,

    Just because we haven't posted an acknowledgement of the issue doesn't mean we are ignoring it or any issue for that matter. Everything takes time. And issues are put in order of importance. But rest assured that as has always been the case issues will get resolved.

    But the manner in which you spoke about Remco is uncalled for IMO. Yes he is a beta tester. But he can't spend 24 hrs a day on it. And Remco has done a very nice job of helping many on this forum. But if beta testers are treated in this manner I can assure you they will want to be so anonymously. I know you didn't mean to come off the way you did. But the truth is that it read as a personal attack and I can't allow that on anyone. Again we have a great bunch here. You Grimey included. You've been a great asset! Please just remember we are all here for the same goals. Thanks.
  • I did have the same issues on pc in the V3 function test window...and I've spend many hours switching from manually to auto calibration before cleaning the Hall sensor, thnx for naming it, and now I did one last auto calibration test...and now all problems went away!!
    I guess the fw 110 wasn't all that for the V3s...fw 116 came pretty quick after 110!!

    I FINALLY can say now...the V3s are awesome..much better feel in braking and throttle control then I had with the V2s !!
  • Grimey...I might have found the solution to our throttle loss issue. Still testing myself but I've got some good hopes up for it!!!
    If you look at the right side of the pedals, there are 3 hex screws holding the sensor case. Turn them al out, BUT BE CAREFULL not to lose the plastic washers that are used for distancing the sensor from the frame!!!!
    Noe clean that metal round sensor plate, on/in the frame, with a clean DRY cloth. Put it back together. Install fw 116 again. Re autocalibrate the pedals. I do that by clicking the enable manual calibration on and OFF again, push all pedals once more. And then load up PCars or FM 6 again and let me know tour findings.
    I think some in factory grease troubled the sensitivity of the gas pedal!!!
    I did have the same issues on pc in the V3 function test window...and I've spend many hours switching from manually to auto calibration before cleaning the Hall sensor, thnx for naming it, and now I did one last auto calibration test...and now all problems went away!!
    I guess the fw 110 wasn't all that for the V3s...fw 116 came pretty quick after 110!!

    I FINALLY can say now...the V3s are awesome..much better feel in braking and throttle control then I had with the V2s !!

    a


    Thanks Antoine. Great job.
  • edited September 2015
    My Problem is when i Load Driver 226 and Flash FW 116 to wheel the Pedals Lose calibration and only Read Half way
    Go to Fana control panel.  Check manual mode, then uncheck it, then press each pedal once or twice and it should be calibrated to 100%.  I've had your halfway (or thereabouts) issue a couple times.  Just do that and you should be good until the next time you pull your pedals' USB cable out of your PC, or possibly upon PC reboot, I'm not sure but once I do that, I have no problems afterwards.
    I can confirm this, I literally just had the 50% issue and doing it like that resolved it. I'll report to the devs.
    Remco Van Dijk may i ask what platform or platforms  do you Personally own and use and How do you have your pedals connected???This would be relevant information because then i and maybe others would not look to you for input on Consoles EX: PS4/XB1. 

    Looking at the thread this issue is most common with PS4 and Xbox1 users... it has been spoken about many many times by Myself and many Different people...many of the people reporting it were not even the Regular people that post all the time...I am very happy that you finally see the issue for yourself but i am still confused and Confounded as to why this issue has not been reported or looked into given the amount of people that have posted they are having the issue with the pedals not reading correctly... it is very obvious that its not just 1 person having a random issue.

    All Platforms may vary and have different issues using the same FW and i
    would Not expect you to have knowledge of platforms you don't use this is why i ask what Platform do you use.

    Edit: I'm not trying to be difficult I'm just trying to understand How and who to post Driver or FW Related issues to
    :-??

    Grimey,

    Just because we haven't posted an acknowledgement of the issue doesn't mean we are ignoring it or any issue for that matter. Everything takes time. And issues are put in order of importance. But rest assured that as has always been the case issues will get resolved.

    But the manner in which you spoke about Remco is uncalled for IMO. Yes he is a beta tester. But he can't spend 24 hrs a day on it. And Remco has done a very nice job of helping many on this forum. But if beta testers are treated in this manner I can assure you they will want to be so anonymously. I know you didn't mean to come off the way you did. But the truth is that it read as a personal attack and I can't allow that on anyone. Again we have a great bunch here. You Grimey included. You've been a great asset! Please just remember we are all here for the same goals. Thanks.
    I simply Quoted what has been the answer that is Given Every Time some one Mentions that they have a problem with Driver 226 and  the Pedal FW " I have Not Had This Issue" just because you have not had it does Not mean it doesn't Exist...There are multiple reports of it... read the Thread how many post have you seen about it??? Today was the First time that any positive notice was given that the issue is acknowledged and is being looked into...also i Deem it to Be Relevant information as to what Platforms that is being used to beta Test because EX: i use PS4 and XB1  i cannot Give detailed  information about PC as it is the platform i spend the least time on and because of that i know the least about it... same principal applies to every one beta tester or Not....there is Nothing wrong with saying i don't know but i will look into it... but when the answer is "I have not had that problem" that strongly implies that their is some sort of operator Error on the user end.... Maybe he has his pedals plugged in via USB to PC and that's why he has not had the issue ... We don't know so i asked... Nope i will Not use insulting terminology Either i've already gotten 1 infraction from him

    LOL...live in NYC I have a Full time job a House and a family... trust me i do have better things to do other than personally attack some one i don't know and probably will never meet on a internet forum...so what you read is Not a personal attack I'm Honestly asking Questions so i know who to go to for answers concerning specific platforms and FW issues because I'm tiered of 3 weeks of "I've never had that issue" you go count how many times this random pedal issue was posted then count how many times i never had that issue was posted...if its 1 person yes its a random and isolated case... But its by far more than 1 person posting about it...BTW thank you for Finally acknowledging the issue exist...If the issue was at least publicly acknowledged i would not have post about it...and BTW i did not start today's post about it Either i simply responded to a post that was made.

    How about this I will Beta Test and Buy My own Equipment at Full price... I just want it to be tested Fully so the end product works as it should. ...i already own all the wheels, Consoles and a gaming PC but  i will keep my testing to console because that's what i race on the majority of the time. send me the FW




    :)
  • I did have the same issues on pc in the V3 function test window...and I've spend many hours switching from manually to auto calibration before cleaning the Hall sensor, thnx for naming it, and now I did one last auto calibration test...and now all problems went away!!
    I guess the fw 110 wasn't all that for the V3s...fw 116 came pretty quick after 110!!

    I FINALLY can say now...the V3s are awesome..much better feel in braking and throttle control then I had with the V2s !!
    I agree FW 116 Feels Great when its working... it has the Best wheel Feel soo far!!! I have Not pulled the Hall sensors off to clean them... Its very ODD that no other wheel/Pedal FW requires that for proper Pedal calibration... like i said if that solution still holds up for you till friday maybe i will do the same keep me posted... For now FW 94 is performing Flawless for me.
  • Trevor GeddisTrevor Geddis Member
    edited September 2015
    News from Trev. I finally received the last of my kit. It took since last October, what with pre-orders, incomplete orders, returned orders due to problems. So now I have everything at hand and foot. CSW v2 and CSP v3. Okay, now let the games begin. I have downloaded and read all the manuals. Have read every single post in the most pertinent threads. I am after all a dedicated Fanatec fan and customer. Now, I need a last bit of reassurance before I begin.
    I am almost exclusively Xbone console, so lets stick to that platform.
    CSPv3:
    Download the latest drivers and firmware. 219 and 226 are available, downloaded both.
    Connect my CSPv3 to my computer via usb
    Run the software, follow steps in the manual. Please which Driver is best?
    CSWv2:
    Connect the CSWv2 to the PC via usb cable. Install driver and firmware. There are 205, 219, and 226.
    Run the software. Please, which one is best?
    Turn the base off.
    Connect the pedals to the CSWv2 base via RJ12. Connect the base to the PC via usb. Power on. Launch the software. Follow step by step in the manuals for pedal calibration. 
    Power off.
    Connect the base to the Xbone console.
    Power on. Tune menus to personal preferences and go racing.

    I hope I have it right. ???

    Oh, here's my seat, base and pedals on my home made rig. 


  • If you're on W10 you need to update with driver V226.
    Update without the Hub on the base. Once updated base light should be green. Turn base off, attache the hub, turn base back on, calibrate wheel centre. Check base and hub in function test window when switched base to pc mode. Don't update the pedals yet!!
  • joe rugojoe rugo Member
    edited September 2015

    Morning Trevor,    I'm Xbox/FM6/V219/FW94......  and all is good.... that said, Antoine is [from what I've read] right. If your PC is using windows 10 then download V226  ... Also from what I've read here only download your driver of choice to start and un-install other drivers first, not sure if this matters, so maybe a quick question to Fanatec would clear that up.  

    As for the pedals, I simply let them auto calibrate { an option in the controller window] since from what I remember from an earlier post is that manually calibrating the throttle/brake eliminates the BRF  tuning option...again something you may want to double check with support .   If that is the case the BRF is a great tuning option to have in Forza.  Also I believe , and seem to remember that you can just let Fanatec choose the latest firmware to update the pedals with ... I did it weeks ago and if memory serves me , then when you connect the pedals for the first time , the controller window has red highlighted message regarding firmware to click on... again it was weeks ago and I didn't take notes so GO SLOW and follow Fanatec's prompts....

    Club Sport V2 base.   here's what works for me ....

    1] download Driver of choice [V219  or V226 ]

    2] unzip [extract] file so the Fanatec short cut appears on you desktop

    3]  double click the Icon to open the controller window  

    4] plug the base into electrical outlet

    5] connect the Base [ base only] to the PC via USB

    6] power on the base by pushing the start button ...., just push it , don't hold it in , no need to go to boot loader

    7] in the controller window you should now be seeing "club sport wheel "  in a blue highlighted bar" 

    8] double click on that bar , to open the window shown on page 17 of the base manual

    9] click on the "update " tab on the top left of the window shown on page 17

    10 you should now be seeing the window shown on page 21 of the manual

    11] click the " update club sport base firmware " button  on the window ... shown on page 21

    12 ] go to page 22 of the manual and follow along from there ...

    13] ooops missed this ... go to page 23 of the Xbox hub manual for the center calibration instructions . I know that page # by heart.

    hope this is not to late to help .. I need to sleep a bit. If you get stuck .... come back and more times than not some one will help you through it ,  since a some point earlier in the process , some one {Antoine} helped get them through the process... and if I missed something or got it wrong , some one jump in an fix it please ... now back to sleep  



  • You guys are great. I'll follow both your (Joe) and Antoine's instructions. No I didn't do anything yet. I have to go for jury selection duty today, so will not be at the wheel until this evening or tomorrow. 
    Thank's again everyone. 
    I'm going to print those instructions, Joe, so I don't have to bother you guys again. I know the instructions have been related several times here and on other discussions. 
    Have a great day.
  • joe rugojoe rugo Member
    edited September 2015

    @ Trevor, I'm off for the day as well to help my Mom...I will however be sitting behind my V2/v3 baby by 6:pm New York time and check in from time to time... if you feel the need , just send me a personal message via Fanatec and I will be sure to be available at a specific time for moral support if needed... no bother by the way .. I'm just paying it forward and hope to see you doing the same someday soon ... and my day will be a worthwhile day when you are sitting behind your baby with a big smile on you face..   by the way nice set up ...

    PS.. Now why didn't I think of printing a copy of that to just cut and paste for the next time..... hmmmmm  once you run through the process let me know if I missed any thing or if they are hard to understand so I can adjust them and keep them on file for later... little bit of paying it forward already.

  • Remco Van Dijk

    I want to apologize to you for my comments yesterday... it was a long day and some times we as people the little things bother us more than they are supposed to... The Pedal issue is Not your doing Nor is it your Fault... Please accept my Humble and Sincere apology for taking the frustration out on you.... it was just 1 of those days for Me... Please continue the Great work that you do it is appreciated yes even by Me.

    L.Waddell aka Grimey Dog
  • So Grimey, since I've accepted your nomination for "VP of stupid questions and dumb solutions" ... here goes... what is a hall sensor < not even sure I got that right ] ??????? duh.. and is it that little square thing-a- ma- jig on the side of the throttle and clutch bracket?  stop laughing !!
  • edited September 2015
    Bing Bing Bing You Got it!!! Exactly what it is... its what reads the magnet to tell your wheel throttle or clutch position.

    When they put them up so they can be ordered it Never Hurts to have a Spare set and a spare load cell... They last a long time it could be years Months who knows but i always keep a extra set handy... that's the makes difference from being off a hour or so to a few days or weeks if they don't have them in stock.


    "VP of stupid questions and dumb solutions"   Never  does this apply... I've learned alot from you comments!!!  how do you think i Flashed my Hub.

    Edit: Look at the pics of my forza rim then look at yours where do you think i came up with the bottom button placement... LOL
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